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Jon Fassnacht II
United States
Kansas
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OK now I'm sure every one had heard 5th edition is in the works. Does anyone else thing this is too soon? It just seems like the editions are coming out faster and faster. Now I don't know about you guys but money doesn't grow on trees in these parts. I easily spend roughly $300 on various books and supliments. Plus once a new edition comes out it seems no one wants to play the old ones any more. So then after you get a nice collection of source material you have to start all over again. I just wish they would make some core rulebooks and stick with them! If they want to make more money come out with new adventures and kits but leave it the same edition!Now what are you guys thoughts on this? Am I alone on these feelings?
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Ron
Austria
Vienna
ASL ... yes, this is my Desert Island Game. If I have to give up all my 3000+ games and only allowed to keep one, this would be it. This bloody game stood the test of time. Around for more than 25 years - simply the best.
Devote follower of the most holy church of the Evil Bob. Possessed and down the road to become chaotic, evil & naughty. All hail the Evil Bob and his stargate.
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In short: it generates money.
And the 4th Ed was crap  (ducks quickly).
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Jon Fassnacht II
United States
Kansas
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PzVIE wrote: In short: it generates money. And the 4th Ed was crap (ducks quickly).
I just wish they could find another way to generate it. Second edition was my favorite. There are so many different worlds you could play and modules. It was great. I do like the D20 system though.
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Paul Dale
Australia
Moggill
Queensland
2.219531669
You are only as old as you feel. How old is soft and squishy?
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New rule books make money. New editions likewise.
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Bossko B.
England
Brierley Hill
The Black Country
BAZINGA!
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I'd say the no. 1 reason is money.
But 4th Ed. was a problem edition. I'll go out on a limb here and say that it is NOT crap. It's not fantastic either. It's just not a great D&D game - I personally find the classes too alike and generally prefer 3rd Edition or Pathfinder.
But D&D4 has had so much hate and WOTCs attempt at fixing it with new rulebooks has only messed the game up further for new starters and angered some players more.
Starting afresh does seem like a logical, albeit risky, way to go.
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It seems like the guys in charge of the D&D sub-branch of Hasbro nowadays come from the automobile industry . . . Every year a new model just to make the last year's model look old-fashioned and obsolete.
Our regular RPG round still sticks to D&D 3.5 with a smaller second campaign using D&D 4, but only using the first set of core rules from that edition.
AD&D 2nd edition (without the late material) generates a standard set of archetypish characters that fit into a fantasy setting but without lots of options for individualistic character development. During the 17 years of the run of this edition the various worlds of D&D were developed and populated with hordes of NPCs and bundles of campaigns and adventures.
For me D&D 3rd and 3.5th rules work best. There is room for classic archetypes and still enough flexibility to develop unique character types. Even a given character has the flexibility to be more than a one-trick-pony.
D&D 4th edition somehow feels like a computer dungeon crawl (like Diablo II) transponded into a RPG. The character roles are somehow even more strict than in AD&D 2nd edition and the narrowing of the rules toward combat mechanics leave most of the role-playing-parts to the DM's and player's discretion.
I don't need another edition of D&D, I might have a look at it but I don't see me sinking a fortune into it. Especially when the company policy seems to indicate that no matter how hard they promote the 5th edition as the ultimate peek of RPG gaming, they will throw a 6th edition on the market just the next moment when sales numbers start to decline.
Ciao
Martin
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Neil Carr
United States
Barre
Vermont
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Hasbro, which owns Wizards of the Coast, has said that the $30 or so million that D&D generates a year is not enough and has mandated that D&D make $50 million and be on the way to $100 million per year, with the ultimate goal of having a line of D&D movies that can generate a billion or so in revenue for Hasbro. There is a threat that Hasbro could mothball D&D if it can't actually pull off the amount of money that is desired by Hasbro. Their stockholders want rising stocks and dividends, and D&D currently isn't worth the scale of growth that is desired.
So WotC has gone back to the drawing board to try and devise an edition to end all editions, one that appeals to the fractured player base that consists of people playing particular editions, or people playing in the Old School Renaissance, or people playing with Pathfinder, or people playing 4e.
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echoota wrote: So WotC has gone back to the drawing board to try and devise an edition to end all editions
I haven't heard this - did Cook or anybody else say something along those lines?. That would be really cool.
So far, I was assuming that the make-money-via-new-editions marketing model is alive and well.
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Dave Bernazzani (@rpggeek)
United States
Plainville
Massachusetts
I wish to provide legendary service to the RPG community to help grow our hobby and enrich the lives of gamers everywhere.
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E Decker wrote: echoota wrote: So WotC has gone back to the drawing board to try and devise an edition to end all editions I haven't heard this - did Cook or anybody else say something along those lines?. That would be really cool.
Yeah, I think it was part of Mike Mearls' announcement but now I'm at a loss to find it. In fact, that's why they aren't yet labeling it 5e - they just want to call it 'Dungeons & Dragons'. Monte Cook has further clarified that you can seamlessly play a THACO fighter and a d20 based fighter at the same table.
Now... one of their goals is to try and bring the community back together (we've been split since 1977) and that I'm part of the community. I guess they are trying to attract me back into the D&D brand fold. Given that I'm head over heels happy with Paizo being the new TSR, and love the Pathfinder ruleset, it's going to have to be something beyond amazing to pull me back in. If they really are offering a way to play all flavors and styles of D&D seamlessly with the one edition, I'll be impressed. So far, they haven't gotten one edition working correctly so I'm skeptical about them meshing 5+ editions. I'm happy they will adopt the Paizo open playtest methodology. I'm happy Monte Cook is one of the principal designers - he's gone on record as saying 3.0 was his baby and he just didn't care for the design philosophy of 4th... so I'm guessing the core of what comes out will be closer to his vision than it will be to Collins, Wyatt and Heinsoo.
Dave
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Steven Robert
United States
Altadena
California
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echoota wrote: Hasbro, which owns Wizards of the Coast, has said that the $30 or so million that D&D generates a year is not enough and has mandated that D&D make $50 million and be on the way to $100 million per year, with the ultimate goal of having a line of D&D movies that can generate a billion or so in revenue for Hasbro. There is a threat that Hasbro could mothball D&D if it can't actually pull off the amount of money that is desired by Hasbro. Their stockholders want rising stocks and dividends, and D&D currently isn't worth the scale of growth that is desired.
Where do these numbers come from? And the info that Hasbro has given Mearls and the other designers marching orders like this?
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Jason
United States
Arnold
Missouri
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vestige wrote: echoota wrote: Hasbro, which owns Wizards of the Coast, has said that the $30 or so million that D&D generates a year is not enough and has mandated that D&D make $50 million and be on the way to $100 million per year, with the ultimate goal of having a line of D&D movies that can generate a billion or so in revenue for Hasbro. There is a threat that Hasbro could mothball D&D if it can't actually pull off the amount of money that is desired by Hasbro. Their stockholders want rising stocks and dividends, and D&D currently isn't worth the scale of growth that is desired. Where do these numbers come from? And the info that Hasbro has given Mearls and the other designers marching orders like this?
It's fuzzy math. A little fuzzy on facts and numbers. 
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Eric Jome
United States
Milwaukee
Wisconsin
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Of course it is too soon. The new edition isnt based on time. It's based on how the game is fairing in the market. Which is very poorly. 2008 = 80%+ and in 2011, less than 50%
Even if you like 4th, you can't ignore that many many people who used to play and buy D&D now don't. Alienated customers? The only lever they can pull to try to turn the machine around is marked "new edition"
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Eric Jome
United States
Milwaukee
Wisconsin
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And, btw, your old books still work.
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Dave Bernazzani (@rpggeek)
United States
Plainville
Massachusetts
I wish to provide legendary service to the RPG community to help grow our hobby and enrich the lives of gamers everywhere.
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cosine wrote: And, btw, your old books still work.
Says you! My Orange Spine AD&D books are falling apart. Crappy glue.
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wavemotion wrote: cosine wrote: And, btw, your old books still work. Says you! My Orange Spine AD&D books are falling apart. Crappy glue.
Rumor has it that the good people at Hasbro are working on a new, rapidly degradable kind of paper that will turn into dust within four years.
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Kevin H.
United States
Crescent City
California
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E Decker wrote: wavemotion wrote: cosine wrote: And, btw, your old books still work. Says you! My Orange Spine AD&D books are falling apart. Crappy glue. Rumor has it that the good people at Hasbro are working on a new, rapidly degradable kind of paper that will turn into dust within four years.
It only turns to dust if you cancel your subscription to their Perma-Fun (tm) paper-n-glue preservation system.
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Neil Carr
United States
Barre
Vermont
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vestige wrote: echoota wrote: Hasbro, which owns Wizards of the Coast, has said that the $30 or so million that D&D generates a year is not enough and has mandated that D&D make $50 million and be on the way to $100 million per year, with the ultimate goal of having a line of D&D movies that can generate a billion or so in revenue for Hasbro. There is a threat that Hasbro could mothball D&D if it can't actually pull off the amount of money that is desired by Hasbro. Their stockholders want rising stocks and dividends, and D&D currently isn't worth the scale of growth that is desired. Where do these numbers come from? And the info that Hasbro has given Mearls and the other designers marching orders like this?
Enworld.org is where you have to really hang out to get all of the detail info, buried in forum postings.
This article details the Sword of Damocles hanging over D&D, and this article just paints a larger environmental stress that D&D is under right now.
General 5e info is also compiled there. You can find a list here.
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Old & Chaotic Evil Bob
United States
North Attleboro
Massachusetts
do you want to be my new host
I am EVIL, do not try to change my alignment
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echoota wrote: Hasbro, which owns Wizards of the Coast, has said that the $30 or so million that D&D generates a year is not enough and has mandated that D&D make $50 million and be on the way to $100 million per year, with the ultimate goal of having a line of D&D movies that can generate a billion or so in revenue for Hasbro. There is a threat that Hasbro could mothball D&D if it can't actually pull off the amount of money that is desired by Hasbro. Their stockholders want rising stocks and dividends, and D&D currently isn't worth the scale of growth that is desired.
the information details may or may not be correct, I don't care
I do think this is the basic problem that Dungeon and Dragons faces in order to survive
as long as D&D is 1.25 % ($ 50 Million) or less on total Hasbro sales
the product line will be in trouble
you may also need to factor in a different distribution / marketing channels
you may be able to buy D&D from the Walmart online store, you do not see the product on Walmart shelves
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Ron
Austria
Vienna
ASL ... yes, this is my Desert Island Game. If I have to give up all my 3000+ games and only allowed to keep one, this would be it. This bloody game stood the test of time. Around for more than 25 years - simply the best.
Devote follower of the most holy church of the Evil Bob. Possessed and down the road to become chaotic, evil & naughty. All hail the Evil Bob and his stargate.
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If 5e fails (in terms of Hasborg - e.g. not making $5 million in the first week), they will abandon it. Then the license will be sold to a small, but creative group of people who will try to bring back D&D to its former glory with the emphasis on playability and setting and not money making.
At least, I think/hope so.
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Old & Chaotic Evil Bob
United States
North Attleboro
Massachusetts
do you want to be my new host
I am EVIL, do not try to change my alignment
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echoota wrote: vestige wrote: echoota wrote: Hasbro, which owns Wizards of the Coast, has said that the $30 or so million that D&D generates a year is not enough and has mandated that D&D make $50 million and be on the way to $100 million per year, with the ultimate goal of having a line of D&D movies that can generate a billion or so in revenue for Hasbro. There is a threat that Hasbro could mothball D&D if it can't actually pull off the amount of money that is desired by Hasbro. Their stockholders want rising stocks and dividends, and D&D currently isn't worth the scale of growth that is desired. Where do these numbers come from? And the info that Hasbro has given Mearls and the other designers marching orders like this? Enworld.org is where you have to really hang out to get all of the detail info, buried in forum postings. This article details the Sword of Damocles hanging over D&D, and this article just paints a larger environmental stress that D&D is under right now. General 5e info is also compiled there. You can find a list here.
some great reads, Thank You
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Steven Robert
United States
Altadena
California
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echoota wrote: vestige wrote: echoota wrote: Hasbro, which owns Wizards of the Coast, has said that the $30 or so million that D&D generates a year is not enough and has mandated that D&D make $50 million and be on the way to $100 million per year, with the ultimate goal of having a line of D&D movies that can generate a billion or so in revenue for Hasbro. There is a threat that Hasbro could mothball D&D if it can't actually pull off the amount of money that is desired by Hasbro. Their stockholders want rising stocks and dividends, and D&D currently isn't worth the scale of growth that is desired. Where do these numbers come from? And the info that Hasbro has given Mearls and the other designers marching orders like this? Enworld.org is where you have to really hang out to get all of the detail info, buried in forum postings. This article details the Sword of Damocles hanging over D&D, and this article just paints a larger environmental stress that D&D is under right now. General 5e info is also compiled there. You can find a list here.
Yes, I'm aware of Enworld and have read all those posts - but nowhere have I seen any reliable information that directions from Hasbro had anything to do with the launch of "D&D Next" or whatever silly thing they are calling it, or that this relaunch must make $100 million or the brand gets shelved.
The reason I bring this up is that it doesn't take Hasbro to tell Mearls et al. that D&D is in trouble as a brand right now. I suspect that the impetus for a reboot comes from within. Even if you hate new editions, something has to be done, and this seems a pretty logical place to start. Whether it works, time will tell.
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wavemotion wrote: E Decker wrote: echoota wrote: So WotC has gone back to the drawing board to try and devise an edition to end all editions I haven't heard this - did Cook or anybody else say something along those lines?. That would be really cool. Yeah, I think it was part of Mike Mearls' announcement but now I'm at a loss to find it. In fact, that's why they aren't yet labeling it 5e - they just want to call it 'Dungeons & Dragons'. Monte Cook has further clarified that you can seamlessly play a THACO fighter and a d20 based fighter at the same table. Now... one of their goals is to try and bring the community back together (we've been split since 1977) and that I'm part of the community. I guess they are trying to attract me back into the D&D brand fold. Given that I'm head over heels happy with Paizo being the new TSR, and love the Pathfinder ruleset, it's going to have to be something beyond amazing to pull me back in. If they really are offering a way to play all flavors and styles of D&D seamlessly with the one edition, I'll be impressed. So far, they haven't gotten one edition working correctly so I'm skeptical about them meshing 5+ editions. I'm happy they will adopt the Paizo open playtest methodology. I'm happy Monte Cook is one of the principal designers - he's gone on record as saying 3.0 was his baby and he just didn't care for the design philosophy of 4th... so I'm guessing the core of what comes out will be closer to his vision than it will be to Collins, Wyatt and Heinsoo. Dave
Sure, I've heard all the plans to bring players of all editions together again (which I think would be great), but edition to end all editions would seem to imply that the plan is not to make a new edition a few years down the road, which would be a complete turnaround from the current marketing plan. Just wondering whether anyone had heard anything along those lines.
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Maurice Tousignant
Canada
Windsor
Ontario
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What I don't get is that this isn't that quick.
5 years - that's longer then 3rd edition lasted and the same amount 3.5 did. 5e's not coming out this year, heck it may not even come out next year (though I'm guessing it will). It's just been announced. Beta testing has started. Pathfinder was in Beta Testing for 2 years.
As for why? Just check any thread on here about 4e and the mess it is. No other edition has divided the player base to such an extent. Another great indicator is check any of the "how do I get started with D&D threads and see how every person has a different idea of what the entry point is. So not only have they split their existing player base, they have alienated any new players. Not a good place to be.
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Neil Carr
United States
Barre
Vermont
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E Decker wrote:
Sure, I've heard all the plans to bring players of all editions together again (which I think would be great), but edition to end all editions would seem to imply that the plan is not to make a new edition a few years down the road, which would be a complete turnaround from the current marketing plan. Just wondering whether anyone had heard anything along those lines.
My phrase was just meant to point at the whole "unity" thing.
Whether D&D just churns through a new edition every 4 years in perpetuity, gets mothballed, or finally settles on one edition to last for a really long time... we'll have to see.
If one compares to the Magic business model, which is essentially one edition that remains the same but just has new stuff added on a regular basis, then I could see a unifying edition as at least trying to accomplish that. I have my doubts that it could succeed, unless they go heavily digital in their approach.
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Eric Jome
United States
Milwaukee
Wisconsin
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Quote: The reason I bring this up is that it doesn't take Hasbro to tell Mearls et al. that D&D is in trouble as a brand right now. I suspect that the impetus for a reboot comes from within. Even if you hate new editions, something has to be done, and this seems a pretty logical place to start. Whether it works, time will tell.
I too find all these claims of millions of dollars and corporate expectations a bit dubious. "sh*t forum posters say..." as the hot trend is now. I am sure all it would take is watching their market erode.
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