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Taylor Liss
United States
Quincy
Massachusetts
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Quote: Bottom line. WOTC has to justify its existence to its parent company, HASBRO, which means increased sales. 4e isn't cutting it and the accountants are eyeing the meat cleaver to start 'carving out the fat', so they're going to adopt the 'computer industry' business model. Make a product, then wait one to four years to re-release the exact same product with minor changes and force everyone to buy the updated version.' Microsoft office. Turbo Tax. World of Warcraft. Windows. iProducts. It's a reliable business model when marketed to nerds.
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"Going to"?
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SJ Benoist
United States
Saint Charles
Missouri
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That model won't work in RPG's.
I'm doubting this edition will even do as well as 4e did 
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Taylor Liss
United States
Quincy
Massachusetts
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Word on the street is that 5E is going to be "modular" and cater to any person's campaign ideas. Someone posted this thought:
Quote: There will only be one chapter, and that will be character creation. After that you have to buy the module book for what you want. You want a magical campaign? Buy the magic module. You want combat? Buy the warrior module. It allows for complete customization of your gaming experience!
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Aleksander R. Nordgarden Rødner
Norway
Oslo
Oslo
Proud father of Sarah Arwen
Live long and prosper.
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Samort7 wrote: Word on the street is that 5E is going to be "modular" and cater to any person's campaign ideas. Someone posted this thought: Quote: There will only be one chapter, and that will be character creation. After that you have to buy the module book for what you want. You want a magical campaign? Buy the magic module. You want combat? Buy the warrior module. It allows for complete customization of your gaming experience!
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Cracky McCracken
United States
Ohio
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Yup. If that's what you want, let me introduce to the world's premier modular roleplaying game... GURPS (4th Edition)
It's actually quite good and has been very responsibly updated for about 3 decades now.
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Aleksander R. Nordgarden Rødner
Norway
Oslo
Oslo
Proud father of Sarah Arwen
Live long and prosper.
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Cracky wrote: Yup. If that's what you want, let me introduce to the world's premier modular roleplaying game... GURPS (4th Edition) It's actually quite good and has be very responsibly updated for about 3 decades now.
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Dave Bernazzani (@rpggeek)
United States
Plainville
Massachusetts
I wish to provide legendary service to the RPG community to help grow our hobby and enrich the lives of gamers everywhere.
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Samort7 wrote: Word on the street is that 5E is going to be "modular" and cater to any person's campaign ideas. Someone posted this thought: Quote: There will only be one chapter, and that will be character creation. After that you have to buy the module book for what you want. You want a magical campaign? Buy the magic module. You want combat? Buy the warrior module. It allows for complete customization of your gaming experience!
GURPS?!
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The Harnish
Germany
Duisburg
NRW
Cult of The Harnish Leader
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Selling every "module" as a separate book is guaranteed to make a new edition a non-starter. I cannot imagine anyone at WotC would be dumb enough to think that they could get away without releasing a "core set" of rules and none of the info they've posted has suggested that. That said, it doesn't mean they won't resort to selling a core rule book and then selling countless splatbook rule expansions, which will land them right back in to the mess they have now.
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SJ Benoist
United States
Saint Charles
Missouri
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I love modular games, in theory, anyway.
In practice, they tend to be too much work to put together and too difficult to reference in play. I generally won't use them if I have a ready alternative available, and there are tons of "Generic Fantasy" alternatives out there.
YMMV.
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Samuel Sol
Brazil
São Paulo
SP
All engines full to awesome land!
*tap* *tap* Is this thing on?
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MJ Harnish wrote: Selling every "module" as a separate book is guaranteed to make a new edition a non-starter. I cannot imagine anyone at WotC would be dumb enough to think that they could get away without releasing a "core set" of rules and none of the info they've posted has suggested that. That said, it doesn't mean they won't resort to selling a core rule book and then selling countless splatbook rule expansions, which will land them right back in to the mess they have now.
That depends on the pricing model. If it is something like 2 dollars a module, it might work. But they will have to sell packs on the begnning priced like a "normal" core rules.
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yohanleafheart wrote: That depends on the pricing model. If it is something like 2 dollars a module, it might work. But they will have to sell packs on the begnning priced like a "normal" core rules.
Oo, oo ... collectible rules modules!
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Chris May
United States
Killeen
Texas
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E Decker wrote: yohanleafheart wrote: That depends on the pricing model. If it is something like 2 dollars a module, it might work. But they will have to sell packs on the begnning priced like a "normal" core rules. Oo, oo ... collectible rules modules!
Curse you for even speaking it aloud!!!!!!!!
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SJ Benoist
United States
Saint Charles
Missouri
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"Anybody want to trade Fire & Drowning rules for 3rd level Druid spells?"
The horror, the horror ... 
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Chrisgmay wrote: E Decker wrote: yohanleafheart wrote: That depends on the pricing model. If it is something like 2 dollars a module, it might work. But they will have to sell packs on the begnning priced like a "normal" core rules. Oo, oo ... collectible rules modules! Curse you for even speaking it aloud!!!!!!!!
Hey, I'll trade you the Ranger experience point chart, the random swamp encounters table and the 4th level Cleric spells for your rare ranged attacks rules...
Ed: Crud, beaten to it when I had to step out. 
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Thomas Cackler
United States
West Des Moines
Iowa
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In listening to the Dice Monkey podcast on this very idea, I think that an "app" model might work for advanced rules, but not for the basic ones. The game would need to be complete, but if I'm running a combat light game, I could keep the basic rules but if I want to run a crunchy combat centric game, then I can purchase the "Combat App".
I kinda like that idea. Easier for me to part with $2-$3 than $35 for a big splat book.
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Joao Lima
Scotland
Edinburgh
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Guys, fact is, it they want to make serious money, they cannot use the traditional RPG sale model. That does not make serious money. It needs to be collectible / booster / bits based and cater for the geek, and for the non-geek.
The idea of having a 'core' (whatever that is) and then selling customizable bits makes sense, specially if the game turns even more 'boardgamey' and gets closer to the AD&D boardgames. In my mind at least. It also ties with the first post and the idea of breaking 4ed apart, repackage, and sell in bits. The 'beginner', 'intermediate', 'expert' and 'epic' in sets / bits. Another fact is that their best selling property is a collectible card game. Makes sense to somehow merge those principles in an RPG.
(I'm not saying I like it, merely it makes business sense in my mind)
The other bit I'm surprised is about this open beta thing. Am I wrong in saying that they have shown a horror of pdf products thus far? If so, I wonder how will this beta work...
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SJ Benoist
United States
Saint Charles
Missouri
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See, I don't think that will make serious money at all.
Who's going to buy that?
Not me, and not anyone I've ever gamed with.
It doesn't matter how much you are charging, or how much product you are producing, if nobody is buying it.
The basic CCG principles actually don't work very well at all, which is why the failure rate for CCGs is over 90%.
Virtually every "collectable" game has collapsed, even moving beyond card games and into mini's (or Clix). In total, I'd imagine I could name at least 5 games that failed for every game that lasted more than 2 years. Why would we expect this to be a success when the vast majority fail?
Lastly, if they can't sell product in the necessary numbers now, how will they sell MORE by making FEWER people need each piece?
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Eric M. Aldrich I
United States
California
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Cracky wrote: Yup. If that's what you want, let me introduce to the world's premier modular roleplaying game... GURPS (4th Edition) It's actually quite good and has been very responsibly updated for about 3 decades now.
Yeah, but the rules writers and developers at WotC can't hold a candle to the ones at SJG (Monte Cook excepted), if for no other reason that once they learn something they get laid off. Plus GURPS has been continuously refined since the mid 1980s, and it built on work done since the mid 1970s. WotC seemingly didn't learn a thing from the first 25 years of D&D development. Here's hoping Monte Cook can pull off a miracle.
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Joao Lima
Scotland
Edinburgh
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SJBenoist wrote: See, I don't think that will make serious money at all.
Who's going to buy that?
Not me, and not anyone I've ever gamed with.
...
If marketed correctly, and if as I say it gets even closer to the boardgames, potentially a part of the crowd that buys them (boardgamers are notoriously less afraid of buying expansions to the core system), RPG'ers, and even the card crowd. In any case I'm thinking more LCG, rather than CCG.
But hey, if I knew anything about business I would be a businessman. 
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The Harnish
Germany
Duisburg
NRW
Cult of The Harnish Leader
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All that would be going in exactly the opposite direction most D&D fans want though: one of the biggest complaints/criticisms about D&D 3.5 and more so of 4E is that it felt like a board game, played on grid maps, in which you built unstoppable combos. What killed 4E IMO is that commercialization of every facet of the game (and subsequent failure of many of the things promised): Collectible cards, DDI subscriptions that were all-or-none, an unending stream of poorly supported "expansions" (all those power books, e.g., were nothing but expansions to the game), etc.
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Bossko B.
England
Brierley Hill
The Black Country
BAZINGA!
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I heard about this modular design rumour last night down the games club.
Personally I think it's a terrible idea. Surely there are enough build your own game systems out there. With something as iconic as D&D I want to pick up a Core Rulebook, a Monster Manual and be away.
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SJBenoist wrote: The basic CCG principles actually don't work very well at all, which is why the failure rate for CCGs is over 90%.
Virtually every "collectable" game has collapsed, even moving beyond card games and into mini's (or Clix). In total, I'd imagine I could name at least 5 games that failed for every game that lasted more than 2 years. Why would we expect this to be a success when the vast majority fail?
Well, to be fair, there were about 5 crappy CCGs for every good one. 
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jmlima wrote: The 'beginner', 'intermediate', 'expert' and 'epic' in sets / bits.
Or, as the design team is calling it: 'common', 'uncommon', 'rare' and 'mythic rare'...
I hope I'm just kidding here.
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Dave Bernazzani (@rpggeek)
United States
Plainville
Massachusetts
I wish to provide legendary service to the RPG community to help grow our hobby and enrich the lives of gamers everywhere.
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E Decker wrote: SJBenoist wrote: The basic CCG principles actually don't work very well at all, which is why the failure rate for CCGs is over 90%.
Virtually every "collectable" game has collapsed, even moving beyond card games and into mini's (or Clix). In total, I'd imagine I could name at least 5 games that failed for every game that lasted more than 2 years. Why would we expect this to be a success when the vast majority fail? Well, to be fair, there were about 5 crappy CCGs for every good one.
I think you're being unfair here. There were about 8 crappy CCGs for every good one.
Dave
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