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Andrew Goenner
United States Superior Wisconsin
Running 5 PbFs
And still sane...mostly
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Hey all!
So, I finally took the plunge and ordered 6th edition CoC. I'm going to run an intro adventure for my group, and they're all pretty excited to play this game.
Here, of course, is the problem, and I'm sure it's not the first time this has been brought up.
I have played CoC before. Years ago. NONE of my players ever have. In fact, prior to me, they'd only ever played D&D 3.0/3.5/4.0. Now, I've introduced them to Star Wars, Middle Earth, Deadlands, Paranoia, and a few others.
You may notice something in the games above, however. NONE of them are Call of Cthulhu. My players are aware of the mythos, but I don't know that they will quite grasp the gravity of the system. This is a group of players used to playing a light-hearted, kill-heavy campaign with a lot of goofing around and making silly characters.
I had not considered the potential problem with this until one of my players (the most Lovecraft-familiar after myself, ironically) said "You know that blind guy from Borderlands? The one with the peg leg? I want to play him."
So my question is this. How do I warn my players enough that this is NOT like anything else they've played and get them into the system without giving away just HOW deadly it can be? I don't want them to run in guns blazing, but I don't want to destroy the atmosphere by causing them to never leave the house either.
So suggestions, ideas anyone?
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Barad The Dwarf
Belgium De Haan
Got some sanity left?
Come over to the RPGG Tavern, I buy you a drink.
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Ha, I know the feeling, when I came to the geek I was searching for a game to play next to our regular games of Ad&d, the group had been playing this for years and hadn't tried anything else. So I got the hint for CoC and we started it. First time to play, first time to GM and it worked out well.
At first the group had a very heroic playing style, as to be expected by the players but soon enough they did discover this was a bad move. I didn't really kill anyone but I let them taste their mortality and that was enough. Even to this day they still not have learned all there is, read our last session report and you will see what happened to the book dealer.
Start them off against some beings, but make it beings that arent increbibly hard but just hard enough to fight them off, let them feel the pain. Another one is the mystery. I just love it to give them the adventures in which they just have to search and don't really have a clue about what is actually happening. Baddest idea I had was to play Corbitt out of Mansions of Madness and made them the neighbour of one of our characters, they just went in without knowing what to do.
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Adrian George
United States San Antonio Texas
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Am i bad person for saying 'trial by fire'? When the first of them dies gibbering in horror, they'll figure it out. Just be sure to have another guy happen to wander by shortly after, perhaps he even luckily has the same expertise?
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James Ramey
United States Portland Oregon
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MasterGeek wrote: How do I warn my players enough that this is NOT like anything else they've played and get them into the system without giving away just HOW deadly it can be? I don't want them to run in guns blazing, but I don't want to destroy the atmosphere by causing them to never leave the house either.
I'm new to GMing, so maybe one of the veterans here will prove me wrong, but I've done this two ways.
During character creation, I make sure to explain why the hit points are so low. You're a normal person, just like you are in real life. Do you think you could just walk in to a life-or-death fight and survive?
If they still don't seem to get that, I insert a dream sequence somewhere in the early part of the adventure. If they're taking a train somewhere, thats usually where I place it. If they don't take transit, I'll make it unavoidable that they get a night's rest before going out. During that night's rest I'll do a combat round. They wont be fighting beings of the mythos, maybe it's a flashback to WWI or a break in or something. This usually gets the point across that combat is not the best strategy for this game.
Hope that helps!
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Andrew Goenner
United States Superior Wisconsin
Running 5 PbFs
And still sane...mostly
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Heh, thanks for the ideas, guys!
Yeah, I want to make the first session impart the danger of the game without killing them too quickly. I'm just concerned where that fine line is. Because I don't want to go TOO easy on them so they think that charging heroically into every scene is going to work every time.
Perhaps knocking a couple of people CLOSE to insanity/death early on will be enough of a smack to the head for the group. We shall see...
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Andrew Goenner
United States Superior Wisconsin
Running 5 PbFs
And still sane...mostly
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enaxus wrote: MasterGeek wrote: How do I warn my players enough that this is NOT like anything else they've played and get them into the system without giving away just HOW deadly it can be? I don't want them to run in guns blazing, but I don't want to destroy the atmosphere by causing them to never leave the house either.
I'm new to GMing, so maybe one of the veterans here will prove me wrong, but I've done this two ways. During character creation, I make sure to explain why the hit points are so low. You're a normal person, just like you are in real life. Do you think you could just walk in to a life-or-death fight and survive? If they still don't seem to get that, I insert a dream sequence somewhere in the early part of the adventure. If they're taking a train somewhere, thats usually where I place it. If they don't take transit, I'll make it unavoidable that they get a night's rest before going out. During that night's rest I'll do a combat round. They wont be fighting beings of the mythos, maybe it's a flashback to WWI or a break in or something. This usually gets the point across that combat is not the best strategy for this game. Hope that helps!
Well for being a new GM, that sure is a great idea! I may have to borrow that one if they don't get the hint early on.
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Ed Browne
United States Terre Haute Indiana
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It's an uphill battle when dealing with those who think it's just another combat RPG. I have GMed for many new groups to CoC. I start with my motto:
"In Call of Cthulhu, don't carry a weapon you can't survive a hit from."
Some will pick up on that pretty quick, but if they ask why, I say that you will beat the bad guys through knowledge and courage rather than weapons and many times the only thing that can even be hurt by your weapons is you. Mind control, etc.
"The Haunt," which should be still in the rulebook should be a good starting place. There are plenty of ways to show the fragility of the character's before they meet anything really bad through falls, etc.
Spoiler (mouseover to reveal): I had one group that decided to spend the night in the "haunted house" because that is what one is supposed to do. One character woke up with another character holding their shotgun aimed at their face... Illustration of the motto that I give to all new groups now.
Someone mentioned the Corbitt story from "Mansions of Madness." I recommend that adventure highly as well for a starting adventure. It is fairly easy and can give a quick intro to what lies in store for those who want to play Call of Cthulhu. It can even be done with one investigator, as can "The Haunt."
Another thing you might try is to make a bunch of pre-generated characters to hand out. They won't be attached as much to those characters as if they spent time to roll them up. Tell them you want them to try out the system before they take the time to roll up characters. Then hit them hard with something tough. There are lots of convention modules out there that are pretty harsh, making them near impossible to use for campaigns, but good for this purpose. It'll illustrate how tough the system is and give them a chance to figure out if they don't like how tough it is without all the character generation time wasted.
Find the Banshee progam to help you come up with pre-gens if you need them. Or there are some in the back of the rulebook.
Good luck! It is a different kind of game and not for everyone. Know going in they just may not like it.
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Andrew Goenner
United States Superior Wisconsin
Running 5 PbFs
And still sane...mostly
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Grimstax wrote: It's an uphill battle when dealing with those who think it's just another combat RPG. I have GMed for many new groups to CoC. I start with my motto: "In Call of Cthulhu, don't carry a weapon you can't survive a hit from." Some will pick up on that pretty quick, but if they ask why, I say that you will beat the bad guys through knowledge and courage rather than weapons and many times the only thing that can even be hurt by your weapons is you. Mind control, etc. "The Haunt," which should be still in the rulebook should be a good starting place. There are plenty of ways to show the fragility of the character's before they meet anything really bad through falls, etc. Spoiler (mouseover to reveal): I had one group that decided to spend the night in the "haunted house" because that is what one is supposed to do. One character woke up with another character holding their shotgun aimed at their face... Illustration of the motto that I give to all new groups now. Someone mentioned the Corbitt story from "Mansions of Madness." I recommend that adventure highly as well for a starting adventure. It is fairly easy and can give a quick intro to what lies in store for those who want to play Call of Cthulhu. It can even be done with one investigator, as can "The Haunt." Another thing you might try is to make a bunch of pre-generated characters to hand out. They won't be attached as much to those characters as if they spent time to roll them up. Tell them you want them to try out the system before they take the time to roll up characters. Then hit them hard with something tough. There are lots of convention modules out there that are pretty harsh, making them near impossible to use for campaigns, but good for this purpose. It'll illustrate how tough the system is and give them a chance to figure out if they don't like how tough it is without all the character generation time wasted. Find the Banshee progam to help you come up with pre-gens if you need them. Or there are some in the back of the rulebook. Good luck! It is a different kind of game and not for everyone. Know going in they just may not like it.
Well they all love the IDEA. I'm just not sure how it'll go when executed. I'll look at the Haunting when I get the game in the mail.
I really do hope they enjoy it because this still stands as one of the greatest games I was ever a PC in, and I've been wanting to run it for years.
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Barad The Dwarf
Belgium De Haan
Got some sanity left?
Come over to the RPGG Tavern, I buy you a drink.
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I disagree with the corbitt story as a starting point when you have D&D players. They will be armed, go in and kill off everything in their way, that's the D&D style they are used to. You cannot set them right in front of the place they need to be. No give them something puzzling they have to find out, put them on the wrong trail first.
I woudn't put to much combat in there, I personally waited with combat until the second adventure. So first they had an idea what investigating is and then they had to tackle some pesky monsters.
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Barad The Dwarf
Belgium De Haan
Got some sanity left?
Come over to the RPGG Tavern, I buy you a drink.
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MasterGeek wrote: Grimstax wrote: It's an uphill battle when dealing with those who think it's just another combat RPG. I have GMed for many new groups to CoC. I start with my motto: "In Call of Cthulhu, don't carry a weapon you can't survive a hit from." Some will pick up on that pretty quick, but if they ask why, I say that you will beat the bad guys through knowledge and courage rather than weapons and many times the only thing that can even be hurt by your weapons is you. Mind control, etc. "The Haunt," which should be still in the rulebook should be a good starting place. There are plenty of ways to show the fragility of the character's before they meet anything really bad through falls, etc. Spoiler (mouseover to reveal): I had one group that decided to spend the night in the "haunted house" because that is what one is supposed to do. One character woke up with another character holding their shotgun aimed at their face... Illustration of the motto that I give to all new groups now. Someone mentioned the Corbitt story from "Mansions of Madness." I recommend that adventure highly as well for a starting adventure. It is fairly easy and can give a quick intro to what lies in store for those who want to play Call of Cthulhu. It can even be done with one investigator, as can "The Haunt." Another thing you might try is to make a bunch of pre-generated characters to hand out. They won't be attached as much to those characters as if they spent time to roll them up. Tell them you want them to try out the system before they take the time to roll up characters. Then hit them hard with something tough. There are lots of convention modules out there that are pretty harsh, making them near impossible to use for campaigns, but good for this purpose. It'll illustrate how tough the system is and give them a chance to figure out if they don't like how tough it is without all the character generation time wasted. Find the Banshee progam to help you come up with pre-gens if you need them. Or there are some in the back of the rulebook. Good luck! It is a different kind of game and not for everyone. Know going in they just may not like it. Well they all love the IDEA. I'm just not sure how it'll go when executed. I'll look at the Haunting when I get the game in the mail. I really do hope they enjoy it because this still stands as one of the greatest games I was ever a PC in, and I've been wanting to run it for years.
The haunting is a good adventure but it's the only coc adventure that ended with a TPK for us.
I don't know in which are you want to play. If you go for modern, we had some fun with Castaway Island, a great way to bring a group together.
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Robert Masson
United States Hingham Massachusetts
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There have been some excellent suggestions already about how to acclimatize your characters to the Lovecraftian Atmosphere but let me throw in my thoughts.
First let me premise this with saying that I have played D&D (and it's variants) for many years and decided to play CoC after becoming a huge fan of Lovecraft's writing. I also liked that the venue was different and in fact the spirit was fundamentally different. The party was not beating gold out of the wilderness and it's denizens'. The adventurers / investigators were trying to solve a puzzle whose solution only pointed to a larger more sinister enigma. In short.. I feel your pain and the paradigm shift for the party was hard. Here are some thoughts.
First of all you will need to set the tone, create the atmosphere, put your players in the right frame of mind... I am not saying you need to dress up like Bella Lugosi but lighting, sound-tracks, props, your demeanor, all of that effects the attitude your players display. If you and your lads bounce in after playing Halo for six hours don't be surprised when they start taking pot-shots at Shoggoths for head-kills. And yes you should have something eat their asses at that point.
On the other hand if you bring them in, sit them as a table with subdued lighting and a little creepy theme music in the back-ground and read to them the police report of a gristly murder scene and you project utter seriousness and intensity then I defy anyone to not feel their mood shift and to make them a little edgy.
The other suggestion I have is two words: Red Shirts. I mean this in the full-on Star trek meaning of the term. Want to set the tone for the party. Have an NPC get gobbled up by a semi-mobile Shrubbery with a set of chompers like Cujo. Describe the screaming, describe the rending of the flesh. Let the players sweat out how ineffectual their bullets seem in dealing with the Miscreant Moss. Do this early in the adventure and make them realize that the Universe is a lot weirder than they imagined and dealing with it will take focus and thought or they will end up as Fertilizer.
Remember in D&D we were the top of the Food Chain. In CoC we are not even close to the surface. Teach this lesson to your characters early.
Have fun! And my something higher on the Food Chain have mercy on your soul...
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Andy Leighton
England Peterborough Unspecified
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Phadrus00 wrote: The other suggestion I have is two words: Red Shirts. I mean this in the full-on Star trek meaning of the term. Want to set the tone for the party. Have an NPC get gobbled up by a semi-mobile Shrubbery with a set of chompers like Cujo. Describe the screaming, describe the rending of the flesh. Let the players sweat out how ineffectual their bullets seem in dealing with the Miscreant Moss. Do this early in the adventure and make them realize that the Universe is a lot weirder than they imagined and dealing with it will take focus and thought or they will end up as Fertilizer.
The problem for me is that alters the balance of the story in my mind. I prefer games where you slowly realise that the universe (and the various bad things from outer space) just doesn't notice humanity*, that it is a mere insignificant speck of dust. That one of the main problems are the cultists and warlocks who may attract the attention of that uncaring gaze.
My games work off a building sense of unease before the PCs finally realise what they are up against. Try and create a feeling of disorientation amongst the characters, work on all their senses (including stuff like sense of time and temperature).
Yes eventually they will realise that whatever weapons they can lay their hands on are generally ineffective against other worldly evil. But to do that at the start undercuts the buildup of tension IMO.
* Okay there are a couple of do want a slave race (although that may be in much the same way as we keep bees) for some unknown reason.
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Robert Masson
United States Hingham Massachusetts
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andyl wrote: The problem for me is that alters the balance of the story in my mind. I prefer games where you slowly realise that the universe (and the various bad things from outer space) just doesn't notice humanity*, that it is a mere insignificant speck of dust. That one of the main problems are the cultists and warlocks who may attract the attention of that uncaring gaze.
My games work off a building sense of unease before the PCs finally realise what they are up against. Try and create a feeling of disorientation amongst the characters, work on all their senses (including stuff like sense of time and temperature).
Yes eventually they will realise that whatever weapons they can lay their hands on are generally ineffective against other worldly evil. But to do that at the start undercuts the buildup of tension IMO.
* Okay there are a couple of do want a slave race (although that may be in much the same way as we keep bees) for some unknown reason.
Andy first of all Bravo for running what sound like AWESOME adventures / campaigns. The slow build is really the essence of a great CoC adventure in my mind and as a GM / Keeper you live for that "Oh Shit" moment when the characters recognize just how small (and Helpless!) they are in the Universe.. Brilliant! And also kudos to your players who have the right mindset and get the thematic paradigm to support that kind of campaigning!
I think however the challenge of the original poster is how to achieve that same thoughtful mindset when the party is used to rolling in on their horses, fully clad in Armour, magical items and rested Magic Users and ready to throw down on some Dungeon Riff-Raff. This can require a less than subtle reset of the party's expectations. But to your point this does not require spilling the Deep Dark Secrets of the Universe all at once. As a GM we can transition the players to this mindset in a more conventional manner. I am thinking more X-Files than Warehouse 13 here.
As an example perhaps the first adventure is the party investigating a Serial Killer. The Investigation, Chase and Resolution is entirely conventional. Perhaps it is in the conclusion that they discover that the Killer was perfectly normal until they started reading a rare manuscript and then started writing the sign of the King in Yellow all over their apartment. Or perhaps as they follow the provenance of the manuscript which allows them to trace back thru cold case files of other killers who previously possessed the book. However you wish to spin the Story Arc the implication remains that there are forces that darkly effect us as a race and are incredibly dangerous. As you progress you can increase this Dark Pressure until they have their "Oh Shit" moment.. [insert Sinister Evil Laughter here]
Ultimately as a GM we set the pace, we control the tenor, we control the Horizontal AND the Vertical! *grin* Have fun with it! There are so many great inspirations for this that I suspect you will have no trouble finding something to scare the bejeezus out of your party.
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MasterGeek wrote: Perhaps knocking a couple of people CLOSE to insanity/death early on will be enough of a smack to the head for the group. We shall see... I'm afraid this never works. Anything they can recover from is just another scratch.
I found myself in a similar situation a while back, with a group of players used to their characters being nigh-immortal. Ripped a character's throat out in the first encounter at the end of the first session, left him bleeding on the floor and said good night. The players were stunned, and it's been an amazing campaign ever since.
Spoiler (mouseover to reveal): All right, it was a set-up. The player whose character bit the dust was in on the fix. Hey, I'm not that cruel.
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SJ Benoist
United States Saint Charles Missouri
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You have lots of good discussion here, but there is one thing you MUST get if this is going to work.
The player's consent.
They have to agree to play this sort of game, embrace the genre, and take the correct approach. If they insist on kicking open doors and blasting away without asking questions, the game will fail no matter what you do.
Make sure they know what they are agreeing to, and it will go MUCH smoother.
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Eric Jome
United States Milwaukee Wisconsin
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I don't find that combat and looting need to be strictly forbidden in a Lovecraftian setting. You just have to pitch the level of this fighting to the right level. I think you'll need to set it up for them.
See, cultists and flunkies and degenerate madmen, corrupted and debased minions of the Mythos forces, these things I think you can feel free to mow down in droves. They are the kobolds of CoC. And just like the old game in fantasy adventure games when you pump up the kobolds to be vastly more deadly than players imagine they would be, so too can you ramp up the cultists too.
But at the same time, you can show your players that these guys they're fighting are insignificant and irrelevant compared to the real powers. A fight where a real terror is summoned, kills everything present, and the heroes have a chance to see they are helpless before it - and that it is just some minor thing in the scheme of things - will help set the pace.
Ideally, players should understand that Mythos monsters are things you run from unless you have a trump card... and that the only trump cards available probably kill you as well.
If you can, find the Delta Green story about the raid on Innsmouth and have everyone read that. It's a great bit of perspective on what actually trying to fight Mythos things means - mass casualties at best. And that's just a few Deep Ones and an hour against a shoggoth.
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Eric Jome
United States Milwaukee Wisconsin
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Remember too that the ultimate terrifying force of the Mythos is the hopelessness and despair and inevitable futility. This is the hardest thing to get across to people who are used to the idea that they are playing heroes that will triumph. There is no winning. There's survival... for a time if you're lucky.
Take some hints from the sorts of things you see in zombie apocalypse movies - a slow grinding descent into desparation. People you trust betray you, things you count on aren't there, bad situations just get worse, the enemy is never defeated only delayed. There's always another threat, often too many threats, and things vital to you are going to have to be sacrificed just to tread water.
If you can convey that all you'll really get accomplished is holding the shambles of it all together for a few more days, weeks, or years, you'll really hit the right tone.
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Freelance Police
United States Palo Alto California
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Y'know, one crazy thought is to have their goofy characters from the other games appear as insane counterparts in your Lovecraft games. This basically gives the players more of a stake in your game, and makes them suitably disoriented. The Great Race is well-known to have psychic mind transfer "across time and space". You begin an adventure with the players finding out a madman (or two) who behave uncannily like the player's characters in the other games. You can let a player roleplay his character's Lovecraftian counterpart in the asylum scenes. The meta-game is that your players don't know what you will do to these characters when you play the other system again. Indeed, if a player is absent for a game session of the other system, play his character as a very disoriented 1920's gentleman (or a 9' tall conical thing!).
You *can* tie this in with The Haunted House:
Spoiler (mouseover to reveal): Replace the bad guy at the end with the mind one of the player's characters from another game trapped in the semi-undead corpse. (the Great Race was not known for its subtlety.) Replace the rusty knife and other poltergeist activity with psychic activity more suitable with the trapped player character (eg. pranks or even temporary insanity as the trapped player character's mind tries to escape its corpse shell by unsuccessfully possessing the innocent people who move into the house). Replace the crumbling papers on the desk with notes hinting at the conical beings. If the players come in with guns blazing and kill off the corpse, destroy or otherwise system shock the other character in the other system (perhaps making him a schizo with the 1920's persona). Make sure you find a way to give the players some hope to return the minds back -- usually a clue to the Great Race, which starts off the Haunted House as a campaign!
To some extent, instilling fear of the Mythos is just (bleeping) with the player's minds. This is one step further. With your gamemastering experience, you should be able to do it!
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Robert Masson
United States Hingham Massachusetts
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Sam and Max wrote: Y'know, one crazy thought is to have their goofy characters from the other games appear as insane counterparts in your Lovecraft games. This basically gives the players more of a stake in your game, and makes them suitably disoriented. The Great Race is well-known to have psychic mind transfer "across time and space". You begin an adventure with the players finding out a madman (or two) who behave uncannily like the player's characters in the other games. You can let a player roleplay his character's Lovecraftian counterpart in the asylum scenes. The meta-game is that your players don't know what you will do to these characters when you play the other system again. Indeed, if a player is absent for a game session of the other system, play his character as a very disoriented 1920's gentleman (or a 9' tall conical thing!). You *can* tie this in with The Haunted House: Spoiler (mouseover to reveal): Replace the bad guy at the end with the mind one of the player's characters from another game trapped in the semi-undead corpse. (the Great Race was not known for its subtlety.) Replace the rusty knife and other poltergeist activity with psychic activity more suitable with the trapped player character (eg. pranks or even temporary insanity as the trapped player character's mind tries to escape its corpse shell by unsuccessfully possessing the innocent people who move into the house). Replace the crumbling papers on the desk with notes hinting at the conical beings. If the players come in with guns blazing and kill off the corpse, destroy or otherwise system shock the other character in the other system (perhaps making him a schizo with the 1920's persona). Make sure you find a way to give the players some hope to return the minds back -- usually a clue to the Great Race, which starts off the Haunted House as a campaign! To some extent, instilling fear of the Mythos is just (bleeping) with the player's minds. This is one step further. With your gamemastering experience, you should be able to do it!
This is a VERY cool idea! Alternatively you could have your characters wake up in an Insane Asylum because they have been raving on about being adventurers in another world and chasing down Dragons. Have them find a way to escape and regroup and then trace back their memories to the last time they were together in "their world". Perhaps it was some artifact they found that has shifted them to this alternate universe or a portal they were thrown thru a la City on the Edge of Tomorrow. Oooo the possibilities are endless and it would surely confuse and rattle the parrty enough to have them reevaluate their approach!
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Andrew Goenner
United States Superior Wisconsin
Running 5 PbFs
And still sane...mostly
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Sam and Max wrote: Y'know, one crazy thought is to have their goofy characters from the other games appear as insane counterparts in your Lovecraft games. This basically gives the players more of a stake in your game, and makes them suitably disoriented. The Great Race is well-known to have psychic mind transfer "across time and space". You begin an adventure with the players finding out a madman (or two) who behave uncannily like the player's characters in the other games. You can let a player roleplay his character's Lovecraftian counterpart in the asylum scenes. The meta-game is that your players don't know what you will do to these characters when you play the other system again. Indeed, if a player is absent for a game session of the other system, play his character as a very disoriented 1920's gentleman (or a 9' tall conical thing!). You *can* tie this in with The Haunted House: Spoiler (mouseover to reveal): Replace the bad guy at the end with the mind one of the player's characters from another game trapped in the semi-undead corpse. (the Great Race was not known for its subtlety.) Replace the rusty knife and other poltergeist activity with psychic activity more suitable with the trapped player character (eg. pranks or even temporary insanity as the trapped player character's mind tries to escape its corpse shell by unsuccessfully possessing the innocent people who move into the house). Replace the crumbling papers on the desk with notes hinting at the conical beings. If the players come in with guns blazing and kill off the corpse, destroy or otherwise system shock the other character in the other system (perhaps making him a schizo with the 1920's persona). Make sure you find a way to give the players some hope to return the minds back -- usually a clue to the Great Race, which starts off the Haunted House as a campaign! To some extent, instilling fear of the Mythos is just (bleeping) with the player's minds. This is one step further. With your gamemastering experience, you should be able to do it!
Hehe, that idea is SO awesome. I may just have to see about doing something like that!
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Have them roll up two characters instead of one. Explain that this is because the first will surely go insane or be eaten by something, and they'll need a spare.
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