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Fiasco» Forums » General

Subject: Share A Game: Fiasco rss

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Jason Morningstar
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Share a Game is an RPG Geek initiative in which knowledgeable users volunteer to spend a week hosting a thread about a particular game and answer any questions about that game. This thread will have a week in the spotlight, but will always remain active if you stumble across it later.

For more information, including volunteering to host a game yourself, or to request a particular game that you would like to know more about, see the wiki page: Share a Game. And in order to receive notifications when new threads are posted, subscribe to the GeekList: Share a Game


Fiasco

The Elevator Pitch
Fiasco is a game about powerful ambition and poor impulse control.

The Cab Ride to the Mexican Border Pitch
Fiasco is a roleplaying game for 3-5 players that requires no GM, no prep, and no shame. In two or three hours you play out a darkly comic disaster of Coen brothers proportions, at the foolish intersection of greed, lust, and chaos. It’s pretty fun. Your particular Fiasco will take place in a setting you choose, based on the many playsets that have been published and are freely available. Maybe it’ll occur among London’s gangster underclass, a la Guy Ritchie. Maybe it’ll take place in Dallas on the day Kennedy gets shot (and maybe one of you will shoot him). There are more than two dozen to choose from, and each offers endless replayability.

The Setup
Fiasco uses the same pile of six-sided dice as randomizers, a pacing mechanism, and outcome generators. You have black and white dice, their number dictated by the number of players. You first use them to help create the starting situation. You toss all the dice and take turns filling out the situation, guided by the numbers available on the dice and the playbook you’ve chosen. Playsets are divided into Relationships, Locations, Needs and Objects, and each is further divided into general categories (Relationship: Criminal) and details (Relationship: Criminal: Dealer and Customer). Each pair of players gets a Relationship, and each Relationship gets an Object, Need or Location pinned to it. As dice are allocated, a map of a situation poised to explode emerges. Maybe that dealer and his customer have Need: To Get Out: Of a Debt Come Due pinned to them. That’s going to drive the game in a particular direction.

Establish or Resolve?
Once the Setup is complete, you play the game. Players take turns having scenes about their characters. These are a sharply limited resource - everyone will get a total of four scenes during the entire game that they will have some authority over, two in each act. The pace of play is generally fast, and scenes are always meaningful, because you get so few. One of the core tenets of Fiasco is that you can either Establish your scene or Resolve it, but never both. If you Establish, you can frame it however you like and decide, generally, what’s going on and who is on hand to mix it up. But if you Establish, the outcome will be decided by your friends at the table and not you. Conversely, you can control the outcome and decide whether the scene is going to be positive or negative for your dude - Resolve - but if you do, those same friends are going to Establish it for you, and you aren’t going to like what they come up with. It’s a double bind that leads to pitch-black comedy.

Wrapping Things Up
Halfway through the game comes the Tilt, which foreshadows a bit of instability into the action. Tilt elements appear in the second half of the game, and take the form of things like Something precious is on fire or You thought it was taken care of, but it wasn’t. And after the second act, all the choices you’ve made - or that your friends have made for you - determine your character’s individual fate. Chances are it won’t be pretty, but getting there is going to be a whole lot of fun.

Cool Stuff
There's a boatload of extras available for Fiasco, including a whole volume of critical thought on ways to play (The Fiasco Companion). Over 50 playsets are floating around, and Bully Pulpit Games has been publishing a free Playset of the Month for two years.My favorite is Flyover!

Don't Tase Me, Bro
I'd love to answer your questions, hear your war stories, and talk about Fiasco!
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  • Last edited Mon Oct 17, 2011 7:47 pm (Total Number of Edits: 2)
  • Posted Mon Oct 17, 2011 7:42 pm
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Kevin H.
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Hey Jason!

Thanks for hosting the thread.

Embarrassingly, I haven't played Fiasco yet. (Turns in Alpha Geek card.)

One of my friends who has played it was pretty blah on the experience. He said it was basically a game where everyone sat around the table and took turns saying "wouldn't it be cool if this happened?"

On one hand, this is kind of the dirty secret of the hobby, in that every RPG is more or less like that once you get down to brass tacks. But I guess his criticism is that it lacks sufficient structure to be any more compelling than just hanging out and shooting the shit with your buddies. Which might be true for him, but on the other hand Fiasco is critically acclaimed and seemingly popular at least with people hardcore enough to hang out on RPG websites. Do you think he's missing something? If so, what?

I have played the Roach, and like it. Aside from the obvious points of the setting and the Tilt mechanic, what are the main points of difference between the two games? Do you still play the Roach, or are you mostly over it?
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  • Last edited Mon Oct 17, 2011 8:13 pm (Total Number of Edits: 1)
  • Posted Mon Oct 17, 2011 8:01 pm
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Jules
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I've read a lot about Fiasco and I love the mechanics, the fact that you can play it without preparation, the fact that you set up the rise and fall of your characters. But I don't like to play games that are high on conflict and being confrontational, which seems to be what Fiasco is all about.

Can the game still be something for me?
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Chris Talbot
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When I was an RPG.net regular, there were always the RPG.net darlings -- the indie games that the snobbiest among the community loved for various reasons. In the last several months, I've seen a lot of discussion here about Fiasco, and it seems to have become the RPGG darling (hopefully for good reason).

I haven't played it. I'm not sure I will. But I am curious about the game. I have a few questions and requests for those of you who have played or are playing the game.

d10-1 This seems like a game for one-shots, but the core book is listed on RPGG as being 130 pages long. What's all in there that's so necessary for a one-shot?
d10-2 Another question based on the page count: How complicated are these mechanics?
d10-3 Can one person explain the game in a relatively short period of time to a group and then get playing? Or is it critical that everyone at the table has read the rules and understands them before coming to the table?
d10-4 How do the basic mechanics work? What I'm really getting at is: What does a Fiasco session play out like?

Chris
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  • Last edited Mon Oct 17, 2011 8:15 pm (Total Number of Edits: 2)
  • Posted Mon Oct 17, 2011 8:14 pm
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Dave Bernazzani (@rpggeek)
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We got our first chance to play Fiasco two weeks ago. We're a pretty die-hard group of D&D (well, now Pathfinder) players and we all enjoyed our experience. It took us a little bit to get the hang of framing scenes but we mostly "got there". Games like Fiasco aren't going to replace our long-term D&D/Pathfinder campaigns but I think they are welcome breaks on off-weeks and have most definitely made us better roleplayers as strengthening those skills have made our more traditional games more awesome.

Fiasco Companion goes on my wish list for my RPG Geek Secret Santa!

-Dave
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Marshall Miller
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Will we ever see the Playset-of-the-Months published (in print) as annual collections?

Also, you left out one of the best parts: The game has awesome, minimalist, evocative art and the layout is both attractive and helpful.
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  • Last edited Mon Oct 17, 2011 8:45 pm (Total Number of Edits: 2)
  • Posted Mon Oct 17, 2011 8:42 pm
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Jason Morningstar
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dysjunct wrote:
One of my friends who has played it was pretty blah on the experience. He said it was basically a game where everyone sat around the table and took turns saying "wouldn't it be cool if this happened?"

...Do you think he's missing something? If so, what?

I have played the Roach, and like it. Aside from the obvious points of the setting and the Tilt mechanic, what are the main points of difference between the two games? Do you still play the Roach, or are you mostly over it?

Hi Kevin! Those are great questions.

First, your friend - no game is for everybody, so it is hard for me to say if he was missing something or if it just isn't his thing. I'd argue that there is some finely tuned mechanical and creative constraint at work in Fiasco that tends to strongly guide play. It's a collaborative game, because everyone is involved in every scene, so a group's social contract will have a huge impact on how the game goes. If your group isn't good at finding consensus, for example, that's going to be dissatisfying - because you need to reach consensus quickly, and repeatedly.

Second, The Shab Al Hiri Roach. I don't play the original game much any more, although I still really enjoy it. One of my goals is to revise and update it. The Roach and Fiasco have very little in common procedurally or mechanically beyond players taking turns putting their character's agenda in the spotlight. Authority is shared in very different ways in the two games and Fiasco is, by design, much looser mechanically, relying more heavily on individual groups to find their own normative mode of play.

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Brian Cooksey
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ctalbot wrote:
I have a few questions and requests for those of you who have played or are playing the game.


I can answer these based on my experience playing the game. I've played about a dozen games of Fiasco at this point and they've been different from each other as well as being great play experiences.

Quote:
d10-1 This seems like a game for one-shots, but the core book is listed on RPGG as being 130 pages long. What's all in there that's so necessary for a one-shot?


The Tilt and Aftermath tables take up a bit of space but the majority of the page count is in the playsets the core book contains. There is also some great advice about how to run a scene and frequent reminders of the order of play.

Quote:
d10-2 Another question based on the page count: How complicated are these mechanics?


They're dead simple. The only part of the game I had trouble grokking was the dice rolls during the Tilt and Aftermath. Others have caught on more quickly but I had to actually play it out before I was able to get it. The mechanics are simple enough that I was able to run a game of Fiasco without consulting the book after my third game.

Quote:
d10-3 Can one person explain the game in a relatively short period of time to a group and then get playing? Or is it critical that everyone at the table has read the rules and understands them before coming to the table?


The first game I played consisted of three of us who had never played or read the game and one guy who had read it once but hadn't played it yet. He was able to explain everything to us well enough that we were creating our characters and playing within fifteen minutes. He had to read over the Tilt and Aftermath sections when we hit each one to make sure we were on the right track but those were minor speedbumps.

Quote:
d10-4 How do the basic mechanics work? What I'm really getting at is: What does a Fiasco session play out like?


I have trouble reading PbF games that I'm not involved in so I'm hesitant to point you towards the ones we've got here. However, they are excellent examples of the game and you might get an idea of how things work by looking at them. Check them out and see if they answer your question.

From my experience, a Fiasco session plays out like a truly collaborative storytelling event. Each person at every game I've played has been fully involved even in scenes their characters weren't in. The connections between the characters are the strongest part of the mechanic, in my opinion, because they give you a reason to be invested in the decisions others are making.

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  • Last edited Mon Oct 17, 2011 9:07 pm (Total Number of Edits: 1)
  • Posted Mon Oct 17, 2011 9:03 pm
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Jason Morningstar
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Juleske wrote:
I've read a lot about Fiasco and I love the mechanics, the fact that you can play it without preparation, the fact that you set up the rise and fall of your characters. But I don't like to play games that are high on conflict and being confrontational, which seems to be what Fiasco is all about.

Can the game still be something for me?

I think it can! For a game absolutely predicated on failure, it is surprisingly conflict-light. In fact, "conflict" is de-emphasized in the game text. This was a very specific choice I made - scenes have outcomes that are positive or negative, but what that binary means is entirely left to individual groups to decide for themselves. I've played gentle, melancholy Fiasco games. That is, in fact, my very favorite mode of play.

Even the most gonzo cut-throat mayhem is also experienced at a bit of a remove - since you never have total control over your character (Establish or Resolve?) the nastiness never feels like PVP, at least to me.
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  • Last edited Mon Oct 17, 2011 9:30 pm (Total Number of Edits: 1)
  • Posted Mon Oct 17, 2011 9:06 pm
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Steve Segedy
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Mease19 wrote:
Will we ever see the Playset-of-the-Months published (in print) as annual collections?


Hey Marshall! I hope you don't mind if I jump in to answer this one. While we've been planning to put out a collection of the Playsets for a while, we've never settled on quite the right approach that meets player needs. We want something that facilitates easy play at the table and cheap enough to print that we can keep the price reasonable. I'd be interested to hear what format you think would work best!
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Jules
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jmstar wrote:
Juleske wrote:
I've read a lot about Fiasco and I love the mechanics, the fact that you can play it without preparation, the fact that you set up the rise and fall of your characters. But I don't like to play games that are high on conflict and being confrontational, which seems to be what Fiasco is all about.

Can the game still be something for me?

I think it can! For a game absolutely predicated on failure, it is surprisingly conflict-light. In fact, the word "conflict" does not appear in the game. This was a very specific choice I made - scenes have outcomes that are positive or negative, but what that binary means is entirely left to individual groups to decide for themselves. I've played gentle, melancholy Fiasco games. That is, in fact, my very favorite mode of play.


That sounds very cool! Can you recommend some playsets for that type of game?
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  • Last edited Mon Oct 17, 2011 9:13 pm (Total Number of Edits: 1)
  • Posted Mon Oct 17, 2011 9:12 pm
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ctalbot wrote:

Can one person explain the game in a relatively short period of time to a group and then get playing? Or is it critical that everyone at the table has read the rules and understands them before coming to the table?

Hey Chris, hopefully Brian has addressed your other questions, but I wanted to chime in with some anecdotal evidence - it isn't uncommon for me to facilitate two simultaneous games of Fiasco at conventions. I teach all 8-10 first-time players the rules at once, in about ten minutes, and then turn them loose at two tables, hovering around at first to smooth over rules questions and hiccups, and then leaving them to their own devices until the Tilt, when I swoop in to help out again.

I know the game very well, which makes this easier, but as long as one person has read the rules you should be good to go.
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jmstar wrote:
I've played gentle, melancholy Fiasco games. That is, in fact, my very favorite mode of play.


Quote:
That sounds very cool! Can you recommend some playsets for that type of game?

I honestly think any of them can work in this mode, but some are easier than others. Touring Rock Band would be hard. The more grounded ones work better - try it with New York 1913, Main Street or Suburbia from the book, or Jersey Side. Red Front could be heartbreaking.
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Rishi A.
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jmstar wrote:
jmstar wrote:
I've played gentle, melancholy Fiasco games. That is, in fact, my very favorite mode of play.


Quote:
That sounds very cool! Can you recommend some playsets for that type of game?

I honestly think any of them can work in this mode, but some are easier than others. Touring Rock Band would be hard. The more grounded ones work better - try it with New York 1913, Main Street or Suburbia from the book, or Jersey Side. Red Front could be heartbreaking.


If you are going for a more gentle game, I would probably recommend the soft Tilt and Aftermath tables from the Fiasco Companion.
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Mease19 wrote:
...you left out one of the best parts: The game has awesome, minimalist, evocative art and the layout is both attractive and helpful.

Thank you very much. John Harper designed the cover and established the game's overall look and feel. The book's information design is the result of a lot of playtesting, as well as lessons learned over time. The guiding principle was "Tell them, then tell them a different way, and finally tell them again."
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  • Last edited Mon Oct 17, 2011 9:24 pm (Total Number of Edits: 1)
  • Posted Mon Oct 17, 2011 9:21 pm
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wavemotion wrote:
...Games like Fiasco aren't going to replace our long-term D&D/Pathfinder campaigns but I think they are welcome breaks on off-weeks ...
-Dave

A lot of people keep Fiasco in the bag in case a session doesn't make. This happens in my group a lot, so that situation was definitely in the back of my mind as I worked on the game. I'm glad you guys had fun!
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segedy wrote:
...We want something that facilitates easy play at the table and cheap enough to print that we can keep the price reasonable. I'd be interested to hear what format you think would work best!

It seems like you could get 12 playsets into a book the size of the original game and for about the same cost (10 book pages per playset, 12 playsets = approx. page count of rules). Put that in a print + PDF package and add a bonus playset, so people would have a reason to at least buy the PDF for the new playset, and I think you'd have a winner each year.
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jmstar wrote:
wavemotion wrote:
...Games like Fiasco aren't going to replace our long-term D&D/Pathfinder campaigns but I think they are welcome breaks on off-weeks ...
-Dave

A lot of people keep Fiasco in the bag in case a session doesn't make. This happens in my group a lot, so that situation was definitely in the back of my mind as I worked on the game. I'm glad you guys had fun!


I think it's also a perfect game for conventions. I've played twice face-to-face - first time with friends and the second time with strangers. We were definitely friends by the end of the game. It's a fantastic ice-breaker.
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jmstar wrote:
Hey Chris, hopefully Brian has addressed your other questions, but I wanted to chime in with some anecdotal evidence - it isn't uncommon for me to facilitate two simultaneous games of Fiasco at conventions. I teach all 8-10 first-time players the rules at once, in about ten minutes, and then turn them loose at two tables, hovering around at first to smooth over rules questions and hiccups, and then leaving them to their own devices until the Tilt, when I swoop in to help out again.

I know the game very well, which makes this easier, but as long as one person has read the rules you should be good to go.

Unless I've missed a thread that would help me out, the one thing I see missing from every description of Fiasco is some detail on the mechanics -- how the game works, how those dice are used, what are the Tilt and Aftermath (and how do they come into play), etc. To me, the mechanics of the game are at least as important as what the game is about (and in a game where the setting/motives could change with each play, how the game works would likely be the most important thing regarding a potential purchase).

The only GM-less game I've played is Capes, which doesn't seem to even flash on the radar at RPGG, and it is a zero-prep kind of game. I love the idea of zero-prep games (whether they're GM-less or have an identified GM), and so I feel Fiasco might be of interest to me.

Chris
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ctalbot wrote:
jmstar wrote:
Hey Chris, hopefully Brian has addressed your other questions, but I wanted to chime in with some anecdotal evidence - it isn't uncommon for me to facilitate two simultaneous games of Fiasco at conventions. I teach all 8-10 first-time players the rules at once, in about ten minutes, and then turn them loose at two tables, hovering around at first to smooth over rules questions and hiccups, and then leaving them to their own devices until the Tilt, when I swoop in to help out again.

I know the game very well, which makes this easier, but as long as one person has read the rules you should be good to go.

Unless I've missed a thread that would help me out, the one thing I see missing from every description of Fiasco is some detail on the mechanics -- how the game works, how those dice are used, what are the Tilt and Aftermath (and how do they come into play), etc. To me, the mechanics of the game are at least as important as what the game is about (and in a game where the setting/motives could change with each play, how the game works would likely be the most important thing regarding a potential purchase).

The only GM-less game I've played is Capes, which doesn't seem to even flash on the radar at RPGG, and it is a zero-prep kind of game. I love the idea of zero-prep games (whether they're GM-less or have an identified GM), and so I feel Fiasco might be of interest to me.

Chris


Well, rather than treading new ground, I'll point you to Michael Harnish's excellent review of Fiasco:

Delivers on its promises

It includes a detailed explanation of the mechanics.
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Rishi wrote:
Well, rather than treading new ground, I'll point you to Michael Harnish's excellent review of Fiasco:

Delivers on its promises

It includes a detailed explanation of the mechanics.

Yep, missed that one. Thanks for pointing it out. Michael does give a good explanation of the mechanics. It seems almost freeform except for scene resolution. Is that an accurate way to describe it?

BTW, I'm just about sold on it now. I'm not sure I could get it to the table with most of the guys in my group, but if so, I suspect it could be fun.

Chris

EDIT: Forget it. It's ordered.
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  • Last edited Mon Oct 17, 2011 10:23 pm (Total Number of Edits: 1)
  • Posted Mon Oct 17, 2011 10:17 pm
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ctalbot wrote:
It seems almost freeform except for scene resolution. Is that an accurate way to describe it?

Sure, the term I use for games in this space is "structured freeform", which may or may not be a useful label. Fiasco is very explicit about some things (who gets to frame a scene and in what order, who gets to determine a scene's outcome, relationships between characters) and very loose about others (what a scene's outcome means, how relationships interplay, who gets to say what and when). A great game along these lines is Montsegur 1244. Zombie Cinema is another.

ctalbot wrote:
EDIT: Forget it. It's ordered.

You're awesome! My advice for a reluctant group - tell them about it, let them look it over and gauge their interest. You might be surprised. Then keep it handy for a game session that would otherwise be canceled due to circumstances and offer to run it. Or run it at another time for anyone who *is* interested. The key selling point may be that if it isn't fun it's not a huge commitment.
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Brian Cooksey
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Rishi wrote:
jmstar wrote:
wavemotion wrote:
...Games like Fiasco aren't going to replace our long-term D&D/Pathfinder campaigns but I think they are welcome breaks on off-weeks ...
-Dave

A lot of people keep Fiasco in the bag in case a session doesn't make. This happens in my group a lot, so that situation was definitely in the back of my mind as I worked on the game. I'm glad you guys had fun!


I think it's also a perfect game for conventions. I've played twice face-to-face - first time with friends and the second time with strangers. We were definitely friends by the end of the game. It's a fantastic ice-breaker.


I always pack Fiasco when I go to a convention because it's a great pick-up game. The size of the book helps, too. It's easy to throw into a backpack along with a bunch of dice, index cards, and mechanical pencils.
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Chris Talbot
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jmstar wrote:
You're awesome! My advice for a reluctant group - tell them about it, let them look it over and gauge their interest. You might be surprised. Then keep it handy for a game session that would otherwise be canceled due to circumstances and offer to run it. Or run it at another time for anyone who *is* interested. The key selling point may be that if it isn't fun it's not a huge commitment.

I think I have a couple of guys that would try it willingly. The others, well ... they take my cue because I'm the GM. I'll get it to the table at least once.

Looking forward to seeing it.

Chris
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ctalbot wrote:
jmstar wrote:
You're awesome! My advice for a reluctant group - tell them about it, let them look it over and gauge their interest. You might be surprised. Then keep it handy for a game session that would otherwise be canceled due to circumstances and offer to run it. Or run it at another time for anyone who *is* interested. The key selling point may be that if it isn't fun it's not a huge commitment.

I think I have a couple of guys that would try it willingly. The others, well ... they take my cue because I'm the GM. I'll get it to the table at least once.

Looking forward to seeing it.

Chris


I know you mostly run modern Cthulhu games but you might want to give The Bookhounds a look. It's a playset based on Bookhounds of London and it's free.
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