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Mart van de Wege
Netherlands
Den Haag
Zuid-Holland
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Hi,
I just bought the core rulebook from Mongoose, and so far I like it. It's by far the nicest SF system of the ones I've tried so far (Alternity, LUGTrek, Trinity, D20 Future), but I seem to be missing one thing in the rules: character improvement during play.
There's a one-paragraph bit on training, but aside from telling you how to calculate how difficult it is to gain a new skill, it is not very helpful.
Is it really correct that the way to character improvement is by buying gadgets? Do formal, official rules on how to handle what other games do with their experience systems exist? Or do I have to build something in house rules (which, given the point system given in the character creation chapter, isn't too hard, but I'm lazy)?
Regards,
Mart
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Andy Leighton
England
Peterborough
Unspecified
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mvdwege wrote: Hi,
I just bought the core rulebook from Mongoose, and so far I like it. It's by far the nicest SF system of the ones I've tried so far (Alternity, LUGTrek, Trinity, D20 Future), but I seem to be missing one thing in the rules: character improvement during play.
There's a one-paragraph bit on training, but aside from telling you how to calculate how difficult it is to gain a new skill, it is not very helpful.
Is it really correct that the way to character improvement is by buying gadgets? Do formal, official rules on how to handle what other games do with their experience systems exist? Or do I have to build something in house rules (which, given the point system given in the character creation chapter, isn't too hard, but I'm lazy)?
In Traveller you don't get XP, you don't automatically get better in play just by doing adventures.
You can buy stuff to make you better at some things.
You can improve skills by training. This takes time - a lot of time - and someone to teach / train you*. Remember the character creation, apart from your first term you are only getting maybe a couple of skills from a term (of 4 years).
Some play a variant where some characteristics can be similarly trained up.
* Some play that you don't need a real person to teach / train you. I am quite strict on training especially physical stuff. You can't get better at cutlass in jump - unless you have a gym and the right training support. Also I don't allow a full week of downtime for training whilst in jump. There will be various bits of work that will need doing during that time.
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Mart van de Wege
Netherlands
Den Haag
Zuid-Holland
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Yeah, I've been doing some searching on the Mongoose forums, and it appears that this is indeed by design. You are assumed to be competent and gaining extra skills and characteristics (as a reward for finishing an adventure) is not the point of the game.
But aside from that, the training rule is singularly unhelpful. Even if it is hard to gain more skills, and gets harder the more you gain, there is no guidance given as to what limitations to put on gaining skills.
I mean, if a player says to me 'I want to learn skill foo', all I can say is 'OK, that's going to cost you x weeks', right? Unless, like you, you put in in-story limitations.
Mart
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Andy Leighton
England
Peterborough
Unspecified
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Yep - it is your game, your traveller universe, you make the rules.
If you want to give them X-0 skill after 10 weeks whatever they do then do so. Even if it isn't accounted for in the rules.
If you want them to have an in-game reason for the training you can do.
If it makes a better game for you then it isn't wrong to do so.
Personally higher levels of a skill should be more difficult to gain but I am not a simulationist and am willing to sacrifice that on the altar of game play. Others will have different opinions.
If you search various forums you will find various alternatives other people have used.
One thing to remember is to remember what the levels of skills equate to. Giving players carte-blanche to improve their skills too quickly (in game terms) and routinely will end up with players being too good at most things - at least for me. I don't like playing games where the characters are over-powerful - where they are sector-wide experts in multiple skills.
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Art Gorski
United States
Prescott
Arizona
Get my Mac software for Classic Traveller at http://naasirka.weebly.com/
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mvdwege wrote: Even if it is hard to gain more skills, and gets harder the more you gain, there is no guidance given as to what limitations to put on gaining skills.
Don't know about Mongoose, but in Classic Traveller (later products) and MegaTraveller, the sum of your total levels of skills are limited to INT+EDU.
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Andy Leighton
England
Peterborough
Unspecified
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agorski wrote: mvdwege wrote: Even if it is hard to gain more skills, and gets harder the more you gain, there is no guidance given as to what limitations to put on gaining skills. Don't know about Mongoose, but in Classic Traveller (later products) and MegaTraveller, the sum of your total levels of skills are limited to INT+EDU.
Mongoose Traveller doesn't have that rule.
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Chris Campos
United States
California
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I wasn't terribly enthused by the skill advancement system as written. It especially doesn't work very well with characters who have very few skill points, and since my group is full of characters that are scruffy youngsters with few SP (none have more than 2 terms) out to make a name for themselves....
So this is what I do:
Every session you get two marks to place by (different) skills you used (must have required rolls), or something you can reasonably say you were trained for. At the end of the session, you make a roll on those skills at routine difficulty (target number of 6), MINUS the number of marks that are on the skill. If you *fail* the roll, then the skill goes up one level.
It gets harder to learn a skill with higher levels, it requires minimal paperwork, and it keeps the skills increases more or less steady (but slow) in the perception of the player, rather than the character, which I think is better than a more realistic take on skill increases.
I am thinking that once they get to level 3 in a skill I'll make it harder by decreasing the target to 4... cause I don't want any level 5 skills running around.
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William Hostman
United States
Eagle River
Alaska
Gaming in Greater Anchorage area, Alaska since 1978. Looking for Indy-willing RPG players in Eagle River (or willing to drive to Eagle River). Geekmail me if interested.
Yes, this really is what I looked like when I uploaded that avatar. Not that it's quite current anymore.
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As written, weeks of training apply to a skill. Each week of training can apply to only one skill.
In playtest, it was more limited: you could only have up to six skills n progress at once.
As a GM, I've opted to use 1 "training week" per session as a reward for good RP, and another for "Showed up and played." I require tapes and/or an instructor. I make it a formidable task to learn from work or experimentation; make the roll, and if made (or a nat 12), pick up that training week.
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