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Andrew Swan
Australia
Sydney
NSW
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The "Storm Hammer" card (for example) contains this text:
Quote: ATTACK: ___ (Wisdom) vs. Fortitude
HIT: 1d8 + ___ (Wisdom modifier) lightning and thunder damage.
The second blank is obviously the Wisdom modifier, say +4. However I'm unclear what to enter in the first blank. The rulebook says elsewhere that an attack is a d20 plus a modifier, which would imply that the first blank is a modifier (in this case the Wisdom modifier), but in that case, why doesn't it say "Wisdom modifier" in brackets like the "HIT" line?
If they do mean for us to enter the character's wisdom in the first blank, say 18 for a human cleric, how does that fit in with attack rolls normally being a d20 plus a modifier?
N.B. this isn't just about the "Storm Hammer" card; lots of the cards are like this.
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The Harnish
Germany
Duisburg
NRW
Cult of The Harnish Leader
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With the exception of determining starting Hit Points, you always use the ability modifier and never the ability itself. So fill in the Wisdom mod there.
The simple answer as to why the cards are confusing: Piss-poor editing.
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Andrés Santiago Pérez-Bergquist
United States
Mountain View
California
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MJ Harnish wrote: With the exception of determining starting Hit Points, you always use the ability modifier and never the ability itself. So fill in the Wisdom mod there.
When you roll your d20, you'll want to add your Wisdom modifier (probably +4 or +5 for a starting Cleric), half your level (rounded down, so zero at 1st level), and, if the attack has the Weapon keyword, the proficiency bonus from your weapon (+2 or or +3).
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Maurice Tousignant
Canada
Windsor
Ontario
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Santiago wrote: When you roll your d20, you'll want to add your Wisdom modifier (probably +4 or +5 for a starting Cleric), half your level (rounded down, so zero at 1st level), and, if the attack has the Weapon keyword, the proficiency bonus from your weapon (+2 or or +3).
This is pretty much correct. To hit rolls are Stat Modifier + 1/2 Level + other modifiers.
Other modifiers include Proficiency bonus for Weapon attacks, Enchantment bonuses for +1,+2... weapons and implements, Feat bonuses (no clue if there are Feats in Red Box, but an example would be the Expertise feats), class bonuses (like the Essentials Rogues +1 to hit with a light blade or bow), etc. If you have anything else that gives you plus to hit, add that here.
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Matt H
United States
Morganton
North Carolina
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Im very new to DnD, and I have the Red Box starter as well. I also have a similiar question! Im a rogue, and one of my At Will Powers is "Bump and Run". The card reads:
"Target: One creature
Attack: _____ (Dexterity) vs AC
Hit: 1d6 + _____ Dexterity modifier) damage, and you push the target 1 square.
Effect: You move up to half your speed."
So my dexterity is 18, and the modifier is +4. If I use Bump and Run, is my attack simply 18 vs the targets AC? I understand the rest, but do I even roll the d20 for this? Its sort of confusing to me.
Also, do I have to use a power card to attack? Can I simply attack with my dagger? As an example, roll the d20 and add the +7 attack bonus from the dagger, and compare that to the targets AC?
I believe that my question is right in line with the OP's, thats why I posted here instead of creating a similar thread. Thanks in advance for any help!
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Mark Buetow
United States
Du Quoin
Illinois
Best game company ever?
GMT Games, of course!
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cyalume wrote:
"Target: One creature
Attack: _____ (Dexterity) vs AC
Hit: 1d6 + _____ Dexterity modifier) damage, and you push the target 1 square.
Effect: You move up to half your speed."
So my dexterity is 18, and the modifier is +4. If I use Bump and Run, is my attack simply 18 vs the targets AC? I understand the rest, but do I even roll the d20 for this? Its sort of confusing to me.
In D&D whenever you do something you (almost) always roll the d20 and add all the modifiers. So, for the above the attack is d20+4. The damage is 1d6 +4.
Quote:
Also, do I have to use a power card to attack? Can I simply attack with my dagger? As an example, roll the d20 and add the +7 attack bonus from the dagger, and compare that to the targets AC?
Yes, you can just do a "Basic Melee. I'm guessing the dagger isn't +7 (unless it's magic) but that it's +4 for your Strength and +3 for the dagger. I could be wrong, so see if it's broken up anywhere. If the dagger itself is +7, you would also add your strength modifier (since it's a Basic Melee). Unless your character uses Dexterity for the attack which it may given the power shown.
Does that all make sense? Anyway just remember the basic game mechanic: You roll the d20 and add all the modifiers that are relevant.
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Maurice Tousignant
Canada
Windsor
Ontario
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You can always do a melee or ranged basic attack instead of use a power. The thing is that most of the powers are just as good as a melee basic attack and do something more. Bump and Run for example attacks with Dex over STR so hits more often and it moves you and the enemy in addition to doing damage, so there is pretty much no time you would just want to attack when you could use bump and run instead.
You to hit for Bump and run would be +7 = +3 for dagger proficiency, +4 for a Dex of 18 + 0 for half your level (assuming you are talking about a level 1 character). That is what you would put on the card, and is your base attack bonus with that power. Things can still modify it, for example if you have combat advantage it would be +9 to hit = +7 for your regular chance to hit, +2 for combat advantage.
Melee basic attack would be +3 for proficiency + whatever your STR bonus is (I don't know what it is for the Thief in the Red Box) to hit.
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Matt H
United States
Morganton
North Carolina
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Hey Mark! You seem to be a fan of every game I enjoy! I cant begin to tell you how much youve helped me with Combat Commander! Anyway, the book says "Starting with your Dexterity modifier, you then add +3 to determine your attack bonus. Thats because youre wielding a dagger, which is a very precise weapon even if it doesnt deal much damage. Your total will be +6 if youre a drawf, +7 otherwise."
So I suppose that means that the dagger has a weapon modifier of +3? The book shows it written on the character sheet as "+7 Attack Bonus - Dagger - 1d6 + 4". If I understand correctly, a basic melee would then be 1d20 + STR + 3 (weapon modifier). Is that right?
The cards are written horribly. They should say "1d20 + ____ (Dexterity modifier) vs AC" or something similar. Im almost dreading trying to learn from the Starter Box. Ive tried to find someone local to teach me, but so far, no luck. Im thinking I should try harder to find a good player to show me how to play.
Thanks for the quick reply!
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Mark Buetow
United States
Du Quoin
Illinois
Best game company ever?
GMT Games, of course!
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Matt,
As Maurice has pointed out, a basic melee attack adds a weapon bonus plus usually strength. Whatever character you have apparently adds Dexterity instead so I guess it's a +7. Often the powers will be tradeoffs. So, a basic melee might be easier to hit with (+7) but only do 1d6 damage. On the other hand, the Bump and Run only hits with a +4 but does 1d6+4 and lets you move the target a space.
I've found that in D&D4e, characters rarely make basic melee attacks. Opportunity attacks are Basic Melee (not sure if those are in the Red Box).
I've enjoyed some D&D 4e but unfortunately I don't like the way the company has split it and not supported it well (at least to my satisfaction) so I am going to be turning to Pathfinder for my crunch game of choice. (And for quick and simple, Tunnels & Trolls is loads of fun).
Are you DMing or playing?
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Matt H
United States
Morganton
North Carolina
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Right now Im just learning to play, but I know that if I have any hope of getting my friends to play too, Ill be DMing eventually. Ive wanted to look into Pathfinder, but Ive heard its a lot more complex than 4e. Ive just bought the Essentials line, in hopes of having up to date info. Ive got the DM Kit, the Monster Vault, and the Heros of the Fallen Lands book, as well as the Red Box. Ive been reading the Swords and Wizardry core rules, I might start there instead. Can you teach me how to play anything online?
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The Harnish
Germany
Duisburg
NRW
Cult of The Harnish Leader
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Everyone should keep in mind that the OP was referring to the Starter Set cards - many of the follow-up answers are mentioning modifiers, rules, and concepts that do not appear in the starter rules. Hence, you're likely to confuse the issue even more as they go searching for non-existent rules. Remember, you can't even use a bow in the game.
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Mark Buetow
United States
Du Quoin
Illinois
Best game company ever?
GMT Games, of course!
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MJ Harnish wrote: Everyone should keep in mind that the OP was referring to the Starter Set cards - many of the follow-up answers are mentioning modifiers, rules, and concepts that do not appear in the starter rules. Hence, you're likely to confuse the issue even more as they go searching for non-existent rules. Remember, you can't even use a bow in the game.
I knew it was the Red Box but I didn't realize it was so limited. 
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Matt H
United States
Morganton
North Carolina
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I think thats my issue. Ive read through the Rules Compendium, and its not matching up with the Red Box well. Im watching the great Robot Chicken DnD videos on youtube trying to pick it up from there, but those were filmed before Essentials come out. Watching Chris Perkins explain things as they play is helping me, regardless of how old they are. I wish I had passed on the Red Box. How much of a challenge is it to learn DnD via Map Tool or the other software available? Is it practical?
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The Harnish
Germany
Duisburg
NRW
Cult of The Harnish Leader
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The Red Box is a terrible intro product to 4E D&D - it's a good intro to the idea of D&D but for the average person it's a big disappointment since you can't just carry on from the box set by buying the other Essentials books. Instead you have to remake your character, learn quite a few more/different rules, and ultimately you're stuck wondering what you got out of the box other than the dice (which are pretty ho-hum as dice go). Even my 8-year-old grew bored with the box fast and was frustrated by it.
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Mark Buetow
United States
Du Quoin
Illinois
Best game company ever?
GMT Games, of course!
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MJ Harnish wrote: Even my 8-year-old grew bored with the box fast and was frustrated by it.
Strange. Most kids like the box most of any part of a toy. 
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Matt H
United States
Morganton
North Carolina
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So if you have no one to teach you face to face, how do you veterans suggest that a new player learn? Are there any tutorials online to help? I know Wizards can be fussy about such things...
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Maurice Tousignant
Canada
Windsor
Ontario
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I realize the rules aren't in there but I'm trying to help with the correct rules.
+7 to hit with Bump and run because it uses Dex. (at level 1)
Melee basic would be your STR mod +3. (at level 1)
Both are added to a D20 roll. If you get higher then the targets defence you hit.
As for learning the game, find out if a store near you is running Dungeons and Dragons Encounters. This is an event that happens every Wednesday night and is a quick 1 encounter session that lasts no more then 2 hours, usually significantly less.
I also suggest picking up on of the Heroes of Books, as they contain the full rules for making characters. Once you have that, toss out your red box choose your own adventure stuff, and have your DM run the module that's in red box with your newly made characters.
EDIT: mistake up there. A tie goes to the attacker and is a hit. Sorry about that.
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Mark Buetow
United States
Du Quoin
Illinois
Best game company ever?
GMT Games, of course!
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Matt:
Another suggestion to see what the playing of the game "looks" like is to read some of the Play By Forum (PBF) threads under the various games (and their modules). These generally run pretty true to face to face play but a bit more "slow motion" as it were. You can see both how the DM and players use descriptive language and how the mechanics work as well.
Here's an example.
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Matt H
United States
Morganton
North Carolina
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GilvanBlight wrote: As for learning the game, find out if a store near you is running Dungeons and Dragons Encounters. This is an event that happens every Wednesday night and is a quick 1 encounter session that lasts no more then 2 hours, usually significantly less.
I also suggest picking up on of the Heroes of Books, as they contain the full rules for making characters. Once you have that, toss out your red box choose your own adventure stuff, and have your DM run the module that's in red box with your newly made characters.
Ive searched on the Wizards site on the Encounters map, and there arent any stores around me doing it. Maybe I can convince my FLGS to start one. I do have Heros of the Fallen Lands book. Ill go through that and make a fresh character with the actual rules. Now I just need a DM. Anyone willing to make a trip to beautiful western North Carolina? 
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Matt H
United States
Morganton
North Carolina
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Malacandra wrote: Matt: Another suggestion to see what the playing of the game "looks" like is to read some of the Play By Forum (PBF) threads under the various games (and their modules). These generally run pretty true to face to face play but a bit more "slow motion" as it were. You can see both how the DM and players use descriptive language and how the mechanics work as well. Here's an example.
Excellent idea, Mark. Ill read it now. Perhaps Ill take part in one myself. Do you play in any games online? Have any experience with it?
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Mark Buetow
United States
Du Quoin
Illinois
Best game company ever?
GMT Games, of course!
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cyalume wrote: Malacandra wrote: Matt: Another suggestion to see what the playing of the game "looks" like is to read some of the Play By Forum (PBF) threads under the various games (and their modules). These generally run pretty true to face to face play but a bit more "slow motion" as it were. You can see both how the DM and players use descriptive language and how the mechanics work as well. Here's an example.Excellent idea, Mark. Ill read it now. Perhaps Ill take part in one myself. Do you play in any games online? Have any experience with it?
I don't and I haven't. I'm fortunate to have a couple of good groups I game with so I get to game face to face. I've thought about it though just because then I could be a player for a change. Playing at a Con is lots of fun too. We played a three session adventure at GenCon in Indy last year. But there are lots of smaller Cons around that have RPGs going on.
And, I'll give you the sage advice I give to others: If you'd just move to Southern Illinois, you'd get all the gaming you'd ever want.
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The Harnish
Germany
Duisburg
NRW
Cult of The Harnish Leader
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cyalume wrote: So if you have no one to teach you face to face, how do you veterans suggest that a new player learn? Are there any tutorials online to help? I know Wizards can be fussy about such things...
The best suggestion (though not easiest) IMO is to find yourself 4 friends and learn together. Eat some chips, kill some orcs, tell some stories. Ultimately that will give you the most satisfying result and likely to be the most fun - that's what got most "old timers" hooked on the game; not playing Encounters or buying Fate cards. It's really not rocket science.
You might also find out what the locals at your FLGS are playing if not 4E D&D since you're likely to have more luck finding people to play with if you're playing what everyone else is.
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Andrew Swan
Australia
Sydney
NSW
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GilvanBlight wrote: Both are added to a D20 roll. If you get higher then the targets defence you hit.
Only higher? Isn't equal enough?
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DMSamuel
United States
Ithaca
New York
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cyalume wrote: I wish I had passed on the Red Box. How much of a challenge is it to learn DnD via Map Tool or the other software available? Is it practical?
No, these programs do not teach one how to play the game. They are only used to generate virtual maps on a server everyone can connect to and therefore see their computer screen as if it was the tabletop as the game is being played. They do not have any rules or game system related information on them - they are software used to connect people together, but the people have to come with the game knowledge already in hand.
I also recommend reading the actual play threads and seeing if that helps you.
If you have Skype installed on your computer, I would be happy to sit down and run you through a short scenario and teach you the basics of the game. It would take probably 2-3 hours and it would have to be a weekend day or late one weeknight.
I have run many games this way and taught many people how to play 4e. I also have actual play podcasts online if you would like to listen to those (e.g. here at RPGMP3.com). Send me a geek mail and we can schedule something if you'd like.
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Maurice Tousignant
Canada
Windsor
Ontario
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game_boy wrote: GilvanBlight wrote: Both are added to a D20 roll. If you get higher then the targets defence you hit. Only higher? Isn't equal enough?
Sorry, my bad, Equal is a hit.
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